Lessons from Hurricane Katrina … Still unlearned!

The Straight Talk Series from GlobaFone, Inc. is designed to provide you with information you will only find here - we cut out the marketing fluff, the 'spin' and provide you with just plain old 'Straight Talk'. The Straight Talk series consists of articles and interviews that shift the paradigm of the Emergency Preparedness and Response world to help provide thought leadership to the industry. Maintaining the highest level of preparedness and response is everybody's business, not just the emergency planning and business continuity community. We intend this series to be thought-provoking, maybe controversial and yet genuine, always with the intent of extending the practice of the professionals in this work space.

This phone interview was conducted July 18, 2008 with Mike Brown, former Director of FEMA, by Lou Altman, CEO of GlobaFone, Inc, a leading supplier of Satellite Phone communication services.

Lou: Hello! This is Lou Altman and thank you for listening to another edition of the Straight Talk series. My special guest today is Mike Brown - former FEMA Director, most notably on the ground in New Orleans, doing great work after Hurricane Katrina in August 2005. As an agency, FEMA took a great deal of heat for their performance after Katrina, and Mike ultimately left. I met Mike after I heard him speak at a NEDRIX Event, which is the New England Disaster Response Information Xchange - that was last October. What's struck me about Mike is his absolute genuineness… here's a real person - not someone who's just playing a part. Mike is incredibly dedicated to his work, and one of the absolutely nicest people I've ever met. Mike has very kindly agreed to chat with me today about disaster preparedness after the Hurricane Katrina and various other things that I thought it would be nice to ask him. So, Mike - that's very much for joining me! I know you're taking time away from your family and vacation, and welcome to the Straight Talk Series!

Mike: Hey Lou! Not a problem! You know that after you and I talked at that NEDRIX conference, we became - I would hope - good friends because, as I told you at the time, it was clear to me that you clearly get it and so, I'm happy to help you here.

Lou: Great! I really appreciate that. So, why don't you fill us in … What have you been doing recently in the last few years?

Mike: Well, it's probably most surprising to my critics - I'm living life to the fullest! You know, I spend approximately a third of my time working with clients who probably have new or under-utilized technologies… specifically technologies that can improve disabilities and be effective and yet, not encroach on these freedoms that we so cherish in this post 9/11 world. Another third of my time is spent working on organizations, individuals and issues of crisis management - I mean, what happened to me, can happen to anybody at any time.

I heard someone once describe me as someone who's kind of been at the top of the mountain top, in terms of experience - thinking about 9/11 and before the hurricane - and the creation of the Department of Homeland Security, the Tsunami in Asia in 2004… but I've also really been in the valley and depths of disaster like Hurricane Katrina. So, I've seen what works - I've been at the top of the game; I've been at the bottom of the game. So, I've always approached my crisis management presentations, as 'Who better to teach what works than someone who's been at both ends of that spectrum'? And finally, I spend about a third of my time speaking about the experiences, crisis and emergency management, business continuity, and just the whole concepts of faith and surviving something like what I went through. I've had the privilege to speak to some of the largest, most recognizable names that you know in American business; I've spoken to groups all over the world, and have found that people really do want to hear about these experiences.

Lou: Right! Yes, I know… and we've been trying to do this interview for a while now… and it was Stockholm, and London, and then the DC, and then back and forth in New York. And it seems as if there's simply just no slowing down Mike. So, let me see, a third, a third and a third… so you basically sleep on planes, like I do! (Laughs)

Mike: You know, I was working on the drive! (Laughs)

Lou: One thing that's really impressed me about you, was that when we met last October - I mean, it was the first time that we ever met, and I came up to you and I approached you, and I thought your talk was really impassioned… and, when I introduced myself, you specifically remembered my company as one of the key satellite phone providers during Katrina. And that struck me as impressive, with all the whirlwind going on, and it's been some time… that you can remember something like that. So, two questions: How important is it for you, personally, to remember those kinds of details? And what can people do to sharpen up on that kind of memory detail?

Mike: Remind me… what's your name again? (Laughs) Just kidding! I think these are great questions and here's why… Well, I am a passionate individual. Give me a path - something that someone says is difficult, or challenging, and I like to prove that it can be done, or, you know, fail trying to do it. That's the whole feeling of 'you're either in the arena trying, or you're not'. If I believe in something, I work hard to achieve that goal, and I believe that people who operate in that same mode, with that same passion, conviction, and awareness of the people around them - you instantly recognize those people and you bond with them, and you recognize their passion and conviction.

And that's why I remembered you and the company, because what your company was doing was the solution that I knew that we needed. And again, not to just throw back a compliment, you know Lou, you were personable, you were a real human being, and sometimes, in Washington - I'm sure you run into those people in other places too - you find people that are dull, they're uncaring, they're really not into what they're doing and I just don't like to waste my time. Whether you are a busy executive, the head of a government agency - like I was - whether you are a small business owner, what you want to do is associate yourself with people who believe in what they're doing, who want to find solutions, and are genuine, real, people… and then you remember those people.

Now, your second question - I'm not sure how people can sharpen those skills, but I remember one thing… I was in Dallas, Texas, at a conference on how to do labor negotiations and this guy turned to me, and we somehow got to be friends - maybe because of those things I just said before, but he said to me, "The one advice I can give you is always listen. Learn to listen." And by that he meant, truly learn to listen to people. And if you listen to people, and understand where they're coming from, those kinds of details that stuck with me about you and your company… anybody else can do it too.

Lou: Sure! It's like the old Scottish proverb: We have two ears and one mouth for a good reason.

Mike: True! Absolutely!

Lou: Mike, how do you get started in disaster preparedness and that whole arena?

Mike: You know, it's funny because the media likes to play with the fact that one day, I was practicing law, and my biggest client was the Horse Association, and the next day, I was the Director of FEMA. It's just amazing how that sticks in the minds of some people. My first professional job was as the assistant to the City Manager at a town called Edmond, Oklahoma. It was the fastest growing community in Oklahoma back in the 80s. And in that job as the assistant to the City Manager, I was in liaison with the police and fire departments, working their budgets and I actually did the police and fire negotiations. And in that job, I wrote the first emergency operations plan for the city, and was very instrumental in getting them to create their first Emergency Operations Center. And then, in addition to that, all of that stuck with me, because I used to work so closely with the First Responders… I remember going to my first house fire scene and it was just before Christmas and the house was totally engulfed in flames. And I remember thinking at that time, "If that happened to me, how would I handle it? What would I do?" And it somehow got this whole emergency management-crisis management thing instilled in me, instilled in my brain at the very beginning of my career.

Lou: So, you really cut your teeth on the front line…

Mike: Well, yes… I mean, it was my first serious job.

Lou: Right! So, help me transition - how did that background help prepare you for your role as the Director of FEMA? You started as Assistant to the City Manager in Edmond, Oklahoma, at the very local level - front line, and then 'X' number of years later, you're the Director of a Federal-level Response Agency.

Mike: Well, it was very good because it gave me a baseline experience. It helped me understand. Again, going back to my comment about listening… it helped me understand that I've got to listen and understand what the First Responders' issues are, what their needs are… but it also helped me in the political environment, because working at the local level means that all politics is local; and if you want to see really nasty serious politics, go to the City Council Meeting sometime.

Lou: Well, (laughs) sometimes, our town meetings in New Hampshire can get a little dicey too!

Mike: Exactly! But here's why I think it's really important… just to help me in preparing for my role as Director, and to become the Under-Secretary; but I think it was more of learning how to deal with people, learning how to manage and learn organizations… because I firmly believe that what's most needed for people that come in to administration, you have to be a fire-fighter or a cop… you have to be a cop or a heart surgeon for that matter to be in the area of health and human services. What you have to be is someone who can lead people, command organizations, and get things done; that's what's important.

Lou: So, it's a matter of being effective as opposed to the credentials that you may have.

Mike: Absolutely!

Lou: Okay! So, August 29th, 2005, my daughter's eleventh birthday - I had eight 10 and 11 year-olds in the house, and had to figure out how I was going to get them all home, and fly into the (GlobaFone) office and of course, we and everyone else who was in support - we didn't leave for a month!

Mike: Right!

Lou: What was the biggest single obstacle with the Katrina response?

Mike: No hesitation - no doubt… communications. In the typical disasters - what I mean by typical disasters is that in almost any disaster - you can normally restore communications, somewhat rapidly. It may be 8 hours, it may be 12 hours, or whatever… but in the typical disaster, your communication's back, up and running. Katrina on the other hand, covered 90-some thousand square miles. The cell phone towers, the landlines, other means of communication - even the extraordinary demand on satellite phones, and all the secret government technologies that we use to communicate were erratic and haphazard. And so, what happens is that a lack of communication results in a lack of situational awareness. That affects every aspect of the response studies with disaster, and that lack of situational awareness makes it hard, and literally impossible.

At times, there are rumors, conflicting reports about what's happening within your area of operation, and really understanding what's happening on the ground. Communications was the single, biggest obstacle.

Lou: Okay! And of course, I'm pleased to hear you say that, sort of as the after comment, because obviously it's going to support what I've been saying for years… that nothing is more important than communications during Disaster Response. And of course, that lends into what it is that we do, and I've been beating the drum for Satcom for 10-plus years.

Mike: Yes! And good for you!

Lou: Well, it's actually like… you go to various meetings and I was with a big hospital group yesterday, and people have to make a decision as to what 'good enough' is. If something works part of the time, and that's good enough - that's great! But if you're in really critical response, 'good enough' is probably not good enough, because unfortunately, if 'good enough' doesn't work, somebody can die.

Mike: I can tell you that you're absolutely right, because 'good enough' was not good enough for us in Katrina. We needed communications. Think about it… I'm in the G-5, primarily based in Baton Rouge, but I've got people in Mississippi, Alabama, Louiana, Texas, and all the states in the north… Tennessee, Georgia, and the Carolinas, and I'm trying to find out what's happening. What do you need? Where are the things going? I'm at a strategic level, trying to make things happen. And if I can't communicate, I don't know - and if they don't know what needs to be done, or where they need to go, you're right… people die!

Lou: Yes! So, it suffices to say that communications are so critical to provide effective responses. What else needs to happen? I mean, the communications is the first step. But there are dozens and dozens of plays that are in the Disaster Response Playbook. What are some of those other things?

Mike: Well, I'm not sure that the battery in my phone is going to last long enough to do that! (Laughs) But I will tell you… at the top of the list without being idealistic… here's what's truly at the top of my list, right after communication - and that's public education. I think we have so many leaders in this country that are either public officials, or elected officials, or business leaders, and for that matter, even the media, that do not understand what their respective roles and responsibilities are in a disaster - whether it's a natural or a manmade disaster… whether it's a hurricane, 9/11 or whatever. Those leaders need to understand their roles and responsibilities and the general public - whether you're a disaster victim, whether you're a volunteer, or whether you're just watching on television - you need to understand what your responsibilities are, because you could be in that position sometime… in a disaster.

And I think that when the elected officials lack the kind of leadership skills that are necessary to protect their constituents, we're going to be doomed to fail again. When the public has misplaced expectations as to what they can expect during a disaster, we are doomed to repeat Katrina. And in this last point, the media - if the media fails to understand what their role is, and understand how you work in emergency response crisis situations, then they're going to compound the situation. One of the things that I did prior to Katrina, and I frankly didn't do it enough, was that I would ban reporters with me - like for the California fires, the Midwest flood - those sort of things…but, we didn't lift that ban. So during Katrina, I'm having to make decisions. Anderson Cooper wants to go on a boat, with the urban Search and Rescue people to videotape the rescuing people. And I'm like, "No, you can't do that!" because I've got to save people's lives, and I need somebody who can put these people in a boat. And I don't need Anderson Cooper in a boat!

Lou: Yes! That boat space could be used for rescuing people, instead of wanting to show the nation.

Mike: You won't believe how much time that took away - trying to explain to him why it couldn't happen. He leaves with a bad taste in his mouth, because now he's mad and can't get out and do it. But he figured a way… he got his own boat, which is what he should have done in the first place! Again, it's everyone understanding what their roles are. I know that right now, as you said, I'm on vacation… I'm sitting in New Mexico, and if the wild fires break out in this forest area that we live in, I know what I've got to do to make the job for the firefighters easier. If I don't do that, I'm putting those fire-fighters at risk.

Lou: There was actually a really good article in National Geographic - it was about forest fires. I'm just going to go with that thread for a minute, because I happen to have read it the other day. My refuge happens to be out at the beach and I'm 10 minutes away from it - so, it's a daily thing… get some book you want to nail, and get beaten by the waves a bit, and then sit and read. One of the very interesting things was that as long as we can continue to put houses, frankly where houses may not belong, the people who have those houses can't just sit there with a white flag and say, "Help Me!"

They have to prepare themselves as you said… I remember that the article mentioned a whole laundry-list of stuff for people who want to live in a fire zone like that, about clearing out the brush and making sure you have a perimeter, and using a certain kind of roof and covering up any openings on the outside where embers and ashes can blow in… and it just sort of struck me that you're saying what was exactly the same thing that was in the article I read a couple of days ago. And so, of course, what it makes me wonder is, "How do we get public officials, and the media and individuals to actually learn what it is they need to do?"

Mike: Well, it's a tough road, but we know all know that cigarettes are bad for us; we now know that we need to reverse heating; and some of us may disagree with this, but we all now know that we should have both hands on the wheel, not talking on the cell phone…

Lou: Hey! Wait a minute! You're going to knock out a half of my productive time! (Laughs)

Mike: Exactly! Mine too! But it goes back to 'we just have to start'. For example, the reason I'm doing this conversation with you is not just because I like you and your organization, and so on… but also because this is one more opportunity for me to perhaps reach one more segment of the population that will go, "Duh!" and go out and do something! I'll give you a quick example.

Lou: Sure…

Mike: When I first became the Director of FEMA, we had our own house in New Mexico, and I looked around and thought to myself, "You know, I've got to make sure, just in case the press comes and looks. I've done everything" and I walked around the house, and was looking, and we got the perimeter done and everything's done the right way. As I came back in the backdoor of the house, I realized that I had a part of my wood pile, piled up against the house. It's a no-no! So I thought, "What did you miss? What are you doing? We've got to get this wood back, away from the house, because it's a hazard." So even if you know better, sometimes you let things slip.

Lou: Wait a minute! That means that I need to move my wood pile, because it's on the front porch. It's concrete, but it's up against the house. I mean, given everything you've just said, I guess I already know the answer, but are we really prepared for another disaster on the scale of Katrina, or even a smaller (hurricane) - even a category 3 or 4?

Mike: No, I don't think so. But let me divide those two things now. We're not ready for another Katrina. I think we're doing well; FEMA did incredibly good work in the 2004 hurricanes; we did incredibly well in the 2003 wildfires that struck everywhere west of the Mississippi; we did a great job in hurricane and the earthquake this year… we actually sent USAR teams over. We did great work for 9/11. What didn't work during Katrina was the fact that we were not ready for a catastrophic event, and I believe we're still not ready. What we do, is do these stupid things like re-arrange the deck chairs (on the Titanic). We rearrange chairs, we move things around, and Congress passes a bill saying we're going to call this something else now; and they thump their chest about the great job they've done.

Lou: This is what I did for my constituency!

Mike: Right! But we haven't done that. We have not educated the public well enough. We haven't really given the kind of resources we need, to state and local governments, for disasters. And by that I mean look… when people introduce me, and you may have even heard this from the speech up at Boston - Mike Brown handled 160 presidentially-declared disasters. Everybody goes, "Wow! That really sounds like a lot!" But it's really nothing, because during that same time period, there may have been 16 other disasters that were only handled by state or local officials… state or local responders. We have to get more serious about equipping them, because they truly are first responders. We have the assistance for fire-fighter grants - I think I have to get the dollar map of the last year, when I was in the government - but let's just say it was $10,000,000. I know that's not the right number, but if it was $10,000,000 we could give away, we actually have $100,000,000 in demand.

Lou: Yes!

Mike: That's just absurd! So, no… we're not ready.

Lou: Okay! We've been talking about wildfires, which of course, leads me to think that when we're talking about catastrophic events other than hurricanes... it sort of raises an interesting question - with a hurricane, you see it coming and you can kind of remove yourself from the affected area. But wild fires, floods, power outages, may not have the same characteristics. Are they markedly different, in terms of the resources needed to support people and response? I mean, is it the same drill, or is there a sort of a game plan for a hurricane, which is different than wildfires and is different than floods?

Mike: No, it's really the same drill. The only difference is the fact that you need different kinds of resources; you need the same kind of intimate command system; you need the same unified command system. So you have the same operational concept, which you use in all of those. The only difference is that you can watch the hurricane coming, and you can be smart enough and use your brain cells to get out of its way, to move and to evacuate. But the response to all those disasters is essentially the same.

Lou: Okay! So, it's the same - you basically ring the same bell and the same gang has to be there.

Mike: That's right!

Lou: So, now that we're coming up to the third anniversary of Katrina, which means that my daughter's going to be 14, and in high school - which is a father's worst nightmare!

Mike: Yes it is!

Lou: It's been estimated that only third to half of the residents have returned to New Orleans. So, I have to ask this question - do you think that New Orleans will recover?

Mike: Well, I get asked that a lot and I think a better question is, "How should New Orleans recover?" It is going to recover - there's no question about that, and it will slowly, but surely come back. But history's not going to tell us whether it's a pre-Katrina New Orleans should come back as it was, so to speak. I've always argued that there should be this national public debate about how New Orleans should recover… I mean, people would be surprised to hear me publicly saying this… what are we so concerned about - how do we restore the wetlands on the Gulf Coast. I'm thinking about 5 years down, there. That makes Katrina even more powerful. What do we do about those? What should we do with the urban areas that have over these levees? Levees work when maintained, but they were subjected to horrible New Orleans politics - how do we fix that? And if we can't, or don't fix that, then how should we allow people to rebuild in those areas?

So, it raises all these issues about the role of the government - whether it's federal, state, or local - and helping disaster victims recover… what should the general American taxpayer - what should you in New Hampshire, me in New Mexico, and Colorado be willing to pay someone in New Orleans?

Lou: And that raised an interesting question. I participated in Equity International's World Disaster Response Summit about a month and a half ago. And I forget his name… I'm sure you know him; he was talking about the cost of re-building New Orleans as $100,000,000,000. So, the interesting question is, "Should the entire US taxpayers be asked to contribute to a hundred billion dollar-bill to rebuild the city of New Orleans?" Now, me, from my tax money, I want to make sure that we're doing it properly. And how do we, as a country, if we're going to save the Crescent City - the Big Easy - how do we go about it? I think you're right on the money of how, not whether it will, or won't.

Mike: Right! But people aren't willing to have that debate and so, that's the only chance I have to answer a question like that - that's the reason I give them answers…I hope I can somehow stir that debate back up.

Lou: Well, people tend to shy away from having to get real about a lot of stuff unfortunately. So, let me throw a hand-grenade at you. Were you treated fairly in the media? I mean, does the general population really know who Mike Brown is? And I have to admit I'm one of those people who thought, "Wait a minute! He was a lawyer for a horse-racing association and now, he's the Director of FEMA" I'm sorry Mike - I believed the media.

Mike: Most people do, you know! That's because we sit back in our big chairs, fat, dumb and happy and let the news just kind of flow in; we don't filter it out in any way. Whether the media treated me fairly or not, I think history would judge that… but there are two examples that I want to give you now. I think the media recognizes that they made a mistake. One is from sometime ago, and the other is a very recent example.

Lou: Okay

Mike: Sometime ago, the Associated Press got hold of a video tape of me briefing the governors, the President, all the emergency response teams prior to Katrina making landfall. And in that video - and you can find that on YouTube - you see me asking questions - very specific questions. You know, the Superdome is really the place to house people. You know, I've read engineering reports and it can't sustain the hurricane, with a Category 3 nature. We think this might be a 5… we're asking all these kinds of questions. When the Associated Press got a hold of that, they released a work saying, "Hey! We got this wrong! Brown knew what he was doing; Brown was asking the right questions; he was clearly the fall guy for the administration!"

So, that's the first example. I think the second example was the one where I had to continually work at. The Des Moines Register, just a couple of weeks ago, ran an article by a reporter - I understand that she has a very good reputation - ran a report which was something about the administration, and then she took to the typical cheap shots about "Brown wasn't qualified," and "Brown was a crony" or something. So, I shot her an email saying, "I'm really disappointed that you took those kinds of cheap shots. I thought she'd be more interested in the truth" We got in contact and she talked to me at some length, she talked to my lawyer at some length and we provided her all the documentation;, and the details of the in-house committees and she wrote a retraction.

Lou: Is that right? Wow!

Mike: She wrote a retraction and came back and said that "I was all wrong" and the end paragraph of her story, which you can again, find in the Morning Register, was something to the effect that we in the media need to ourselves become more critical about how we operate and not just take White House Press Releases or White House Talking Points at face value, about the so-called incompetence of an individual, and still really try to find the facts.

Lou: Right!

Mike: So yes, to me, it was like, "Hey! That's another small victory"

Lou: I'd say it's nice to have a little piece of vindication to counter it all.

Mike: Right!

Lou: Absolutely! So, that's enough of the past - let's talk a bit about the future. What is your vision for emergency management, business continuity, disaster funds - all these people who fall into the category of as I describe my business - I describe GlobaFone as "We help heroes save lives." All the people, from Director and all the way down… what's your vision for the whole segment… the whole business of helping people after something bad happens?

Mike: I think there are two ways to answer that. I want to use my experiences - both the good and bad experiences to help individuals better prepare for crises and prepare for disasters. What happened to me can happen to the CEO, or the Senior VP, or the small business owner - that's the same thing that happened now… whether you're in the government, in business, or an individual, I think we need to become more self-reliant in a world that has become so intertwined with technology. Our living conditions, our global connections… all these are making our society increasingly fragile. So I want emergency managers and business continuity professionals, risk-managers, academicians, and others, to stop talking to one-another and start talking to the public, and educating them.

I want groups to understand how… I was having a conversation the other day with a gentleman that invests in a lot of technology and we were having a conversation about how we all, throughout society, are so accustomed to just flipping on the television, or just using our ATMs, filling up the car with gas - and all those things can go away in 5 minutes.

Lou: So, we do take a lot of stuff just for granted. You go home, and you flip the switch, and you just expect that the lights are going to go on.

Mike: Right! And so, what I want to do is take my experiences, which I have seen both in developing countries, and in the greatest developed country of ours, where those things disappear and people are completely lost. Whether they're just a homeowner, a business person, or whatever… they're totally lost and have no clue of what to do. I want us to start finding real solutions for that kind of real fine line we live in, in terms of society, and better prepare individuals if that line gets cut, instead of saying, "How do we survive?"

Lou: There are people who cannot handle it when their cell phones go off, and living here in the North-East, I am reminded of how every time there's a blizzard warning, sometimes people overreact. You go to the grocery store, and you can't find batteries, milk, or bread. People buy 50 gallons of milk, because they think they're not going to get out of the house for a month-and-a-half.

Mike: Well, and in the end, in that blizzard situation, they stock up on the 50 gallons of milk, not thinking that we're not going to have power and so, it's going to go bad!

Lou: It's going to go bad in 48 hours!

Mike: Right! I hear you!

Lou: It sounds like what you're suggesting is that we need to come together as individuals with a common purpose, understanding how we can support each-other when things do go bad.

Mike: Well, that's a tough question, because I get asked a lot - "What's the single biggest threat we must prepare for?"

Lou: Right! That is actually what I was going to ask you next anyway! (Laughs)

Mike: Well, let me think of this in a different way. We have terrorism, natural disasters and all these things and an ever-growing population, an intertwined technical population and all of this… and I think that the biggest threat to the US today is the bloated Federal government, because it's run by politicians who are more interested in getting re-elected than the really serious policy issues. I think that is the stumbling block to all these other things. There is this lack of leadership that the federal level that gets us focused on these things and a bloated bureaucracy and a bloated government that moves so slowly. We don't have time for that.

Lou: Right! I agree with that. My view is also that we need a little more scrutiny of how expend our resources. When we want to build a $250,000,000 bridge to nowhere, as opposed to so many other things, that we could spend our money on - I think we need a little re-setting of priorities, perhaps.

Mike: Yes, we do. In fact, we have a crumbling infrastructure. The power grid is incredibly old, it is way under capacity - its ability to handle the capacity it should be handling… this is compounded by the bloated government and lack of leadership; look at Ground Zero right now. I mean, look how far away we are from September 11, 2001, and we now have ground zero, which has not been rebuilt, because we have contractors, we have like a 100 different government agencies who somehow have their finger in how Ground Zero's going to be rebuilt. And this means that, years later, we are going to rebuild that as a testament to the strength of the US, and we won't let anybody do anything to stop us… and we're so bungled down in bureaucracy right now that it's still a hole in the ground.

Lou: And so, too many cooks in the kitchen…

Mike: Yes!

Lou: I understand that. My next question is, "Have you come across the 'it won't happen here' mentality that people genuinely believe in… that somehow they're magically exempt from any kind of disaster?" For example, "We're in the South! We don't have blizzards!"

Mike: I hear that everywhere!

Lou: Is that right?

Mike: I've heard some people say that, "Well, it's not going to happen here, whatever it is…" it's more that they don't say, but you can tell by the shrug of their shoulders that they don't think it's going to happen. But look, we've got people - you've got the growth up there, on the North-East Coast, you've got growth there on the coastal areas, and the Carolinas and Florida… we've got incredible growth along the front range in Colorado, where more and more people are building more and more homes up in this wildlife-urban interface.

So, I think we're becoming more and more at risk by where we live; we're becoming more and more risked by how we live; and so, we've got to, somehow… again, this goes back to the education. I'm showing how old I am, but when I was in Grade School, we had civics and we were taught about the government, and we were taught all these things, and it was really a learning experience. We need to start educating young kids and grade students about personal safety and what they can do in times of crisis, and make it a fun kind of thing; we don't have to be scared of the Boogeyman - we have to scared of these things but we have to be rational and reasonable about what we can, and can't do.

Lou: Has the 'me-first' generation removed some of that feeling of responsibility, of helping your fellow man?

Mike: Well, I think it's removed those which are about helping one another, but I don't think it has translated to an understanding of risk - an understanding of what the risks of where I live and how I live are.

Lou: Okay! It's a general sort of a community - a 'we're all in this together' type of thing.

Mike: Right! Exactly!

Lou: So, that lends the notion that people have to kind of be prepared, and as I said before, instead of waving the white flag and saying, "Help Me!" One of my mentors once proclaimed that the first helping hand is at the end of your own arm. How do we instill a responsibility in people about how they really do need to be prepared for themselves? And you hear all the time that you have to have 3 days of supplies and pet food for the dog and water and everything else, but you know… how many people do that? What does it take people to really do that?

Mike: Well, with the media, instead of focusing on - I understand that bad news sells. But I think that walking into disasters with a real understanding of what's going on, how the systems work, what the responsibilities are… they can find those families and those individuals who did the right preparation and who are frankly promised that they'll get home, and are very comfortable surviving the disaster. Well, let's put those up as examples of what can be done. Let's have show-and-tell, so to speak, for the rest of the country by showing, "Look! Here, in the midst of this disaster, there's someone who did it right, and look how better off they are."

Lou: Exactly! I mean, look, there are houses intact and they may not have had all the creature comforts but they're good!

Mike: They're not stuck on the road, trying to find a place to live; they are surviving.

Lou: Right! That's a great idea! Just looking at it from a little bit of a different angle - I believe that I've heard you speak on this, and I've heard numerous other people speak on this - Steven Flynn from the Council of Foreign Relations had a talk around these issues, but individuals aside - when government officials, and law-enforcement and first responders, they test… and I like to test systems - we recommend that people test their satellite phones every single month. It's up to them; whether they do it or not… you can't really make them. Do the table-top and filed exercises and these sorts of drills actually work?

Mike: They do; they would, but what happens is that all too often, the government officials end up using exercises as an automobile showroom. "Look how great we are! Look at the great toys we have!" These exercises only work when you push them to their limits.

Lou: Okay….

Mike: When I'm talking to groups about business continuity, and their emergency planning and stuff, I always ask, "Have you pushed this test but have failed? Have you pushed this plan to the point where it failed?" if they can't say yes, and they say, "Well, no" then they don't understand the purpose of the test.

Lou: Okay

Mike: The test is to find out what doesn't work and so if you put enough into it, to find out where it falls apart, you really haven't accomplished that much!

Lou: Other than… you can just sit there and say, "We had a successful test!" which doesn't really do much. And I'm amazed that you have exercises that happen - they're ill-equipped of course, in my segment. I have heard of numerous exercises that didn't include (Satcom) … what was it… the largest bio-terrorism exercise in the country? I forget what it was called. It's was last fall… 250,000 people, 6 counties, and tens of thousands of square miles and not one satellite phone… and they went into it knowing that their cell phones and radios didn't work all the time anyway, because of the terrain.

Mike: This is unacceptable - totally unacceptable! This just goes back to my whole point about communication! If you can't communicate, you are destined to fail.

Lou: I use a different word - it's a bit harsher (laughs)! So, I just wanted to stick with Sat-Com obviously because it's my field. And we've noticed a trend that people don't want to spend money on a piece of technology that will probably just sit around and not be used their whole life. I was in a meeting last week, in Washington, where they said, "You know, people look at the budget and they say, 'Whoa! Why are we spending money on this satellite phone? We never use it'". I equate that to life insurance, or health insurance, or even car insurance. I pay for it; I want to make sure I never use it. Life Insurance is inevitable, but health insurance is conscious. You pay for it, and when you need it, you're damn glad it's there! So, what do you say to people who lament the cost of spending - "why are we spending money on this stuff? We're never going to use it!" What do you say to those folks?

Mike: Well, for one, they'll be foolish. As I said before, there are thousands of disasters in this country, every single year. I mean, right now, as you and I speak, and whenever someone's listening to this later on, there will be a disaster occurring somewhere in the country. So, you need to spend the money now, on being better prepared and resilient, and you'll spend a lot less now, than if you start trying to spend that money post-disaster, or even worse, in the middle of the disaster, because at that point, the simple laws of economic come into play. You're going to pay more in the middle of disaster, than you would before.

Lou: So the old adage - pay me now, pay me later - is absolutely true.

Mike: Absolutely!

Lou: Okay! I just have one final question, and I'm sure I might think of something afterwards…

Mike: Knowing you… I know you will!

Lou: (Laughs) Follow-up! Who is best prepared: The government, enterprises or individuals? I don't think it is individuals based on the previous conversation… but now I'm beginning to think that the government isn't really prepared either.

Mike: I don't think any of them are really as prepared, as they should be. I mean, clearly, some are better than the others. I can play the game of pointing to certain states that are better prepared than other states. As I've spoken around the world in different organizations, I've run into some corporations that are incredibly prepared - that really didn't know what to do; and others who are like, "If the shareholders knew, they would just sell off immediately!" So it's really on a case-by-case basis. I think that the bottom line is that the more an enterprise - government, business, or whatever - is better prepared, the straight they come to the bottom line. Because if they get their employees better prepared, they are more likely to be prepared at homes, they're more likely to get back to work quicker, they're more likely to be more efficient… it just makes them be prepared.

Lou: Does that mean that it has a sort of a corporate culture about it?

Mike: It is. And when I went into those cultures, whether it would be in the state government, or the local government, a company, or a small business, or even a home, it's just like, "Wow! This is really impressive!" And when you walk into the opposite, whether it's a state, local government, business, corporation, or whatever, you look at it and you say, "Oh my! This is just a disaster waiting to happen!" No pun intended!

Lou: Right! Of the enterprises, that you see, you said there were some that were really prepared and they do a very good job… are they bigger enterprises? Or are they small, or medium-sized, enterprises? Does size have anything to do with it?

Mike: Size has nothing to do with it.

Lou: Okay

Mike: Do you know what the key factor is? There was one kind of individual - either one individual or a team of individuals - that say, "We've got to do something!" and they made it happen…

Lou: And then they went out and they did it…. That's great! It's good to hear that there are people who are thinking that way, at least some place. I live on the seacoast out here; I only live 10 minutes from the ocean, but given the potential of global warming, I may be beach- front in a few years. (Laughs) Now, this will kind of put you on a spot, and I had alluded to this when we spoke before… obviously you make a living consulting - people pay you (a fee) for your knowledge and expertise, and advice. And the people listening to this interview, if it's okay with you, and it's at your discretion, I would, as a favor to me, and potentially to them, would you be willing to take phone calls, or emails from people who have questions for you, or maybe want to talk with you further about any of the points we discussed further today… If that's something you'll be willing to do, then that will be great!

Mike: Absolutely! Let me give you two contact points. Probably the fastest, easiest way to reach me is via email, and the email address is Mikebrown@att.net. It's also very efficient. Also, I can do more in six emails than I can in six phone calls.

Lou: Absolutely right!

Mike: Let me also give them an office number. The office number is 303-954-8242, and you can reach me there or leave a voicemail.

Lou: That's great! I mean, I know there's an incredible amount of knowledge and experience, and expertise that you bring to any-sized organization dealing with emergency preparedness, disaster response, business continuity planning… but more so, the strategy that goes into it. And I believe that it would be incredible value. As I said at the beginning, I maintain that you are incredibly dedicated and passionate about what you're doing.

Mike: Thank you!

Lou: And I've got to tell you that it's pretty rare to find people who, as you said, care about what they're doing.

Mike: Right! And when you find those people, you think, "That's why you and I were able to re-hook up post-Katrina." And again, I don't want people who are listening to this to think that they're listening to us trading compliments, but Lou… you get it. Here's what the difference is - you understand not just your space, which is satellite communication, but you get that whole spectrum of what the process is, where you fit in it, and so you recognize where the phone lines are… you decide the space that you are fitting in. That's what anybody, and any sort of business, needs to do. It's not just what I'm doing in my little space right here, but all those things around me, that I interact with… what are they doing? And you understand that. And then, you really get it.

Lou: I think we both look at 'how does what I do' impact the result.

Mike: Right!

Lou: The end result… if there's nothing else we need to know, we'll wrap up real quick. You probably need to go. You need to get your feet up and relax!

Mike: Well, you too! I mean, you're on the beach and I'm up in the mountains!

Lou: It's actually kind of pathetic (that we are relaxing but doing this right now) , but I personally enjoy it!

Mike: Me too!

Lou: So folks, that concludes the interview with Mike Brown. Mike, thank you so much for your time, and your words of wisdom and your experiences, and the answers, and for tolerating me, with my follow-ups…

Oh! By the way! There will be a transcript of this available on our website, which www.satellitephonestraighttalk.com. There will be an audio version available there eventually, as well. So, thank everyone for listening. And Mike, thank you very, very much.

Mike: Thank you Lou!